A Conversation with Mary Wells and Alison Fragale on Learning to Lead as Your Authentic Self
Cloudera’s Chief Marketing Officer, Mary Wells, recently hosted an energizing, candid conversation with Likeable Badass author and organizational psychologist, Alison Fragale, as part of Cloudera’s Women Leaders in Tech (WLIT) series. Together, they explored what it means to lead with clarity and confidence while staying grounded in who you are. They discussed how to balance status and power, warmth and authority, influence and intention, and how to navigate doubt and redefine ambition to understand the difference between holding power and earning respect. Packed with both inspiration and practical tools, it was a conversation about how to lead like a likeable badass. Here’s what you missed.
What Is a “Likeable Badass”?
Alison opened the conversation by unpacking the science behind her book’s title, a phrase that instantly grabbed Mary’s attention. What is a “likeable badass”? For Alison, it means showing up as both warm and assertive. She explained that the combination unlocks real influence, not by demanding it, but by earning respect through capability and care.
She said, “Respect comes from showing up as warm and assertive—caring and capable.”
Mary echoed this with her reflection on confidence and self-perception. “That internal conversation about wanting to be respected and liked is so real for many of us,” she said. “You’ve got to get your swagger and keep inspiring.”
Together, they reframed likability not as a trade-off with authority, but as its amplifier. Their message: credibility is built through both kindness and edge, and you don’t need to sacrifice one for the other.
Balancing Authority and Warmth
When Mary asked how to balance assertiveness and warmth—especially under pressure—Alison quickly acknowledged how real that challenge is. For her, the default can lean too far toward assertiveness. For others, warmth comes more easily.
Their shared advice was to zoom out: leadership isn’t about perfect balance in every moment but building a long-term track record of trust.
Alison said, “If you have a history of warmth, people will give you grace when you need to go harder. Then if you have a more assertive moment, it’s just a blip in a much longer story.”
Mary added, “You know when you’re doing it, so own it. Be transparent, and people will respect that.”
The takeaway: Respect and authenticity can go hand in hand, especially when leadership is built on intention rather than perfection.
Confidence, Doubt, and the Inner Critic
Mary turned the conversation to a widely resonant question: How do you keep your confidence when doubt creeps in? How do you quiet the inner critic without losing your ambition?
Alison offered a grounding reframe. The presence of doubt, she said, doesn’t mean you’re weak, but that you’re growing. Like muscle soreness after a good workout, it’s uncomfortable but a sign you’re getting stronger.
She summarized it with insight and clarity: “The doubt sits in the gap between where I am and where I’m going.”
Mary shared how she consciously avoids the term “impostor syndrome,” favoring the phrase “inner critic” instead. Her advice was to pause and look at the bigger picture: “If you just think about yourself five or ten years ago and where you are now, you’re like, I was hoping for this.”
For both leaders, confidence is built, lost, and rebuilt with every step forward, but self-doubt is a normal part of achievement.
Redefining Power and Status
As the conversation turned to power and status, Alison clearly distinguished between the two. She said power comes from controlling resources: money, authority, and access. Status, however, exists in perception. You can’t own it outright, but you can shape it by how you show up.
“Power is what you hold, and status is how others see you.”
Mary emphasized how status, especially for women, is often gained through contribution, but that contribution must be strategic, not invisible. It’s not about doing more; it’s about being intentional and being seen.
Alison underscored that with a pointed reminder: “Be of service, but do it in ways that reflect your unique value.” She urged women to think about how they offer help, not as a general act of generosity, but as a way to showcase their distinct skills and strengths.
Mary agreed. “We don’t want to become a doormat,” she said. “We want to show up with value that reflects our strengths.”
Together, they reframed service as Strategy and influence as something earned through volume, visibility, and value.
Practical Swagger: Tactics for Influence
Alison offered two of her most practical and powerful recommendations to close the discussion: make introductions and start a ripple effect of compliments. These small, intentional actions build trust and amplify your leadership presence in ways that matter.
“Make introductions. Talk people up. Add value in 5 minutes.”
She explained how thoughtful connections can position you as a connector and how spotlighting others builds status for them and you. “People will talk you up in return, and often when you’re not in the room,” she said.
Mary added her practice: every year, she writes a personal list of goals—one for each year of her age—anchored by a theme. It’s an exercise in reflection and intention. Her advice: “Put that stake in the ground and work backwards.”
These strategies provide a framework for leading with purpose, presence, and practical impact every day.
Closing Reflections
This WLIT conversation reflected Cloudera’s belief that leadership can be strategic and human. Mary and Alison challenged conventional models of influence and offered a blueprint for a more inclusive and authentic future.
To bring their insights into everyday practice, here are a few key takeaways:
Show up as both warm and assertive to earn real respect and influence
Build long-term trust instead of aiming for perfect balance in every moment
Treat self-doubt as a sign of growth, not a reason to hold back
Earn influence by being caring and capable, not just by holding power
Make introductions and elevate others to grow your presence and credibility
As Alison concluded, “Strategy and authenticity are not opposites. Just be yourself.” That line captured it all. Influence isn’t about changing who you are; it’s about showing up with clarity, purpose, and presence. And when you do that, you don’t just lead but inspire.